Rahim Moore agrees with Texans

Douglas Lee Mar 12, 2015 3:19 PM Last updated: Mar 12, 2015 4:49 PM

Rahim Moore is the latest Broncos starter to depart via free agency, agreeing to a three-year, $12M deal with the Texans. The 2011 second-rounder follows draftmates Orlando Franklin and Julius Thomas out the door; Nate Irving is visiting Arizona.

Former Ravens safety Darian Stewart was/is reportedly visiting on Thursday as a possible replacement for Moore.

Doug is IAOFM’s resident newsman and spelling czar. Follow him on Twitter @IAOFM

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Fair enough. And of course you need a good QB to win in this league. That has become more clear each year. But you have to have more than just a good QB. That guy actually has to play. 39 year olds who are exceedingly slow and playing behind an offensive line that is still missing 60% of it's starters isn't a formula for making that happen.

I'll agree that we have a better chance with him than without. I just don't think that chance exceeds the threshold of actually getting there. But, again, we'll see...

Posted by Rhett Rothberg on 2015-03-14 11:09:27

Actually, I don't think I'm right. I don't necessarily think I'm wrong, but again, being right is not the point. I could care less about being right. I want to know what is right, whether or not it is the position I currently hold or if it is someone else's.

So yes, I am looking for an explanation to help me get to that point.

Thanks, I'll take all the luck I can get.

Posted by Rhett Rothberg on 2015-03-13 20:04:41

As unrestricted free agents today, Harris would be my number one target in the group: Manning, Miller, and Harris. Manning is old and Miller struggles in coverage. Harris can do anything I ask at his position--and after quarterbacks, corners are the most valuable position in football.

There are quarterbacks I would take ahead of Manning at this point. We didn't say he looked old at the end of the season for fun. Call Seattle and I'll trade signal callers straight up. Call Indy and I'll switch in a heartbeat. And, if Manning can't stay healthy, even KC will have a better quarterback than us. That's a real possibility if the Broncos running game stalls.

I'd still call Chris Harris's agent first.

Posted by toomanyrappers on 2015-03-13 15:33:32

That's why I said "if not top 3" and I'd argue that Von Miller may be better and more impactful than Harris. Manning is also MUCH more impactful than either of these players, so technically, he's more valuable. Also, it's arguable whether either Von or Harris are better at their position than Manning is at his. Manning may have declined in ability slightly, but he's still better than most QB's out there. If you had to take one QB for the season, but couldn't keep him beyond that one season and you had a QB draft, where do you think Manning would go? Behind Brady? Behind Rogers? Any other QB you think would go ahead of Manning? Not to many. Do the same for Harris or Von and you'd find some guys out there that could be taken above them. Harris: Revis, Sherman, Peterson, Haden, Verner, Boykin. Von: Clay Mathews, Aldon Smith, Suggs, Hali, Houston, Lavonte David.

Posted by Rollston Frangopoulos on 2015-03-13 15:15:14

It's apparent in all...I mean, the same ...comment/post you've written here since the end of the season...you think you're right, and you're looking for an explanation for why you're not right...

welp, good luck with that.

Posted by Zo Pruitt on 2015-03-12 23:27:37

You realize we will likely spend almost all of the cap space available.

So that is different than available cash which has been rationed since the last few years of tannys regime.

He was spending bonus money like it grew on trees mainly to Over the hill UFAs. That also caused loads of dead money each year.

I doubt the kids have anything to do with the team except show up at board meetings. And to get a check like they used to.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-03-12 22:42:20

The rest of the league seems to think that these players are magical. I'm not so sure. I wouldn't worry about facing Moore in the playoffs, would you?

Posted by toomanyrappers on 2015-03-12 21:59:31

Chris Harris is the best talent on the roster.

Posted by toomanyrappers on 2015-03-12 21:53:34

One thing to keep in mind: The Broncos may have put the tag on Demaryius Thomas, but if they do get him signed to an extension, the signing bonus gets paid up front, even if it's structured over the term of the deal. Considering that Jeremy Maclin got a $12M signing bonus and Randall Cobb got $13M, DT is going to command at least what Cobb got.

And then there's a guy by the name of Von Miller, who Denver may want to extend, and that's more cash up front they would pay if they do extend him... or any other player set to be a FA in 2016, for that matter.

For a comparison with Miller, JJ Watt got a $10M signing bonus, but they gave him $9M in a fully guaranteed base salary and a $10M roster bonus in 2015. The Broncos might not structure Miller's deal that way, but if you take Watt's signing and roster bonus and put them together, that's a $20M signing bonus you are likely giving to Miller.

Posted by Bob Morris on 2015-03-12 18:28:47

The thing is, you need a good QB to get far. We have that. He'll cover up glaring weakness' on the rest of the offense and he'll make our defense look better by having the ball more. His reputation is that he doesn't play well in the playoffs, but a lot of that is luck and statistically, maybe he's due for a good playoff/Superbowl run this year. Who knows. All I know is we have a better chance with him at this point than without. If the rest of the team isn't Superbowl ready, then why bother? Why not just fold up this season and tell the other teams we don't think we're Superbowl ready so we don't want to play. Sorry Rhett, but that's the dumbest thing you could say. Every team plays to win the Superbowl, whether they think they've got all the right pieces or not. Sometimes you just get lucky. Sometimes you swap a few players that you didn't think would make an impact, but for whatever reason with new coaches and new players around them, they gel and all of a sudden you've got a better team than you thought and by the end of the season we're steam rolling everybody. Maybe the injury bug doesn't hit the Broncos this year, but it hits everybody else. Sometimes being the best means not getting hurt. 2 years ago our team was a Superbowl team despite having 7 starters out due to injury, but the backups stepped in and helped us get there.

Posted by Rollston Frangopoulos on 2015-03-12 18:02:18

are you fucking kidding me lol

we have nothing at FS. At worst Moore is an above average FS. You can't sign him for 4m? Yet you can sign Owen Daniels, who just had vet min last year, for 4m a year?

what the fuck?

Posted by AC on 2015-03-12 17:47:12

I think that is exactly it... you hugely underestimate variability in a season.
The best team does not always win. I'd estimate it probably wins the SB less than 30% of the time. SD was arguably the most talented team in the NFL from 2005-2010, and never really came close to winning a SB.
If you're one of the top teams, and none of the losses so far indicate that is not the case for DEN this year, you have a good shot.
Is Clady improved from his injury recovery? Can Schofield step up fill the sucking void that was RT last year? Can Kubes prep the team for big games better than Fox did? Any of those could mean we are much improved over last year.
Does Manning stay healthy and go on a hot streak in the playoffs? If so, there is more than enough firepower on this team to win a SB. That alone is justification for keeping him around.
I'd love to see some competition brought in for Bruton at safety, as well as some more O and D line help. But our cupboard is far from bare.

Posted by cjfarls on 2015-03-12 17:46:21

The team is every bit as talented as the reigning super bowl champs were last year. Take a run with Manning and see what happens. He is still a top ten qb and better than most qb's the Broncos opponents are throwing out there. Also, keep in mind this is a business. A business that apparently is running low on capital. The last thing the Broncos should do in this situation is ditch the biggest ATM in football in Peyton Manning. What purpose? Seems clear to me. Manning starts Denver sells out every game. Manning starts Denver makes the playoffs. Kicking Manning to the curb and starting Brock may makes sense from a long-term football prospective. The case can be made but it is far from clear cut, but in a real world scenario there is no case to be made.
As others have mentioned, Bowlen is about as poor as can be when compared to his peers. There is an very long article out there in cyberspace somewhere that details the smoke and mirrors financing that allowed Bowlen to own the team and get the stadium built. Bowlen is about as good as it gets when it comes to doing everything possible to win in the NFL, but about as bad as it gets in having the finances to support his hobby. It will be a minor miracle for his kids to be able to pull off what he did and keep the franchise competitive. I have no idea if they have the same passion Pat has or similar intelligence. It is pretty much guaranteed though that they have the same financial impediments that will make it tough to do. Elway spearheading a deep pocketed investment group buying out the Bowlen crew is probably the best bet for many more years of damn good Bronco football.

Posted by Banjo on 2015-03-12 17:45:47

Thanks was not aware of how much it is there. But I've lived in NY. MO, KS, CA and my wife is based out of NYC so taxes can be a bear.

But since moving to TX not a dime to the state.

I'll take that almost 400k and stash it in the bank or good mutual fund won't take long to turn that into a few mil.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-03-12 17:44:09

Well I'm guessing you have never owned or run a business.

Simply put.

Budgeting your money is the way to stay in business.

While they have income from fans they also have it from radio, TV conscessions etc.

But they also have to meet payroll, lay off loans for the staduim. Which IIRC a was a couple hunderd million as Pats part.
Pat brought in or promoted Joe Ellis to BUDGET how much Tanny could spend each year after he blew a couple hunderd million on has been UFAs

So each year they set a limit on UPFRONT CASH given out as bonus money. Because once the contract is approved by the NFL the player gets a check. That money is gone, while it is spread over the length of the contract for cap purposes the money is fine the second the guy makes a deposit.

Just like you making house payment each month, the clubs pay their players each week during the season so they get 1 17th of their annual salary then.

The team also has huge expenses in facilities and the food they put out for the players working out.

My son saw it during training camp once and he said it was nicer than any hotel buffet he has ever seen since he is in the food service industry so to speak that means a lot.

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-03-12 17:38:44

Vance Walker is now a Bronco, it sounds like. Two years 4 mil is quite reasonable imho.

https://twitter.com/Jeff_Legwo...

Posted by underdog on 2015-03-12 17:21:39

But I'll stop... It is what it is.

Posted by Rhett Rothberg on 2015-03-12 17:21:36

But if the rest of the team isn't SB caliber it serves no purpose. Maybe I'm not giving enough weight to variability in a season, but if this team is worse than last year's, and so far it is, how can this be considered a SB run? And if it's not, what purpose does Manning serve, he's done I a year.

Posted by Rhett Rothberg on 2015-03-12 17:18:35

Kind of surprised the Broncos couldn't/wouldn't match. Cut Colquitt and it's zero sum almost

Posted by Rhett Rothberg on 2015-03-12 17:11:11

Are you kidding? Peyton Manning at $15M is probably the best bargain for a player in the NFL outside of a player still on their rookie contract. He's still probably the best player on the team if not top 3 and has more impact than any other player on the team. Without him, there's no guarantee we make the playoffs.

Posted by Rollston Frangopoulos on 2015-03-12 17:10:59

The question is whether or not his kids can (or want) to afford the inheritance tax hit if they take over. I don't know if keeping the budget tight helps or hurts that process but I assume Ellis is planning for that inevitability one way or the other.

Posted by Hercules_Rockefeller on 2015-03-12 17:08:44

And Von

Posted by 53guys on 2015-03-12 17:05:45

That's the nightmare scenario, isn't it? I'm cautiously optimistic that Ellis and Elway have enough leadership presence to guide whomever takes over. Looking at other franchises, sometimes the generational change goes smoothly (I'm thinking of the Rooneys and the Maras), sometimes it's a mess (SF is obviously a great example), and for the lesser teams in the league, it doesn't seem to make a difference one way or the other (Cinci and Oakland come to mind).

Posted by Hercules_Rockefeller on 2015-03-12 17:04:50

This news has worried me from a different perspective. If, after selling out every home game and having 5 home playoff games in the last 4 years, we have no cash left, does that mean Bowlen will eventually have to sell the team? Please no.

Posted by 53guys on 2015-03-12 17:04:14

Thanks for the clarification....not sure how I missed that
Posted by Rhett Rothberg on 2015-03-12 17:03:23

Presumably a decent chunk went into the new practice facility. Bowlen's never been one of the super-rich owners who's personal wealth outweighed his investment in the team (for example Paul Allen or Stan Kroenke), so the cost either came out of the teams cash on hand or bank loans, not the owner's pocket. Either way that puts a near-term strain on operating costs.

That said, with today's salary cap it's hard to imagine any given team really struggling to match up to another team's payroll. It's not like back in the day when Washington routinely spent tens of millions over the "cap" in terms of it's actual cash payroll and other teams couldn't. With a hard cap I think it's more of an issue of how close a team wants to get to spending all of it's cash on hand than whether or not they actually lack the financial flexibility to do so. My speculation is that Ellis is keeping the balance sheet in good shape given Bowlen's health and any potential ownership changes in the next few years (which of course is his fiduciary duty, even if we as fans really just want to see them sign some free agents).

Posted by Hercules_Rockefeller on 2015-03-12 17:00:53

Hmm ... guess it wouldn't be the first time in the Bowlen reign that we're low on the dough. At least they had a good excuse back when they were building a new stadium. Now I have to wonder if the Broncos faithful are going to be abused by the Bowlen kids like that York twit seems to be doing to 49er fans.

Posted by macomment on 2015-03-12 16:50:28

I think you just fail to realize that no one owes you an explanation.

Posted by Zo Pruitt on 2015-03-12 16:48:00

If this is true, and who knows, this adds to the puzzlement I have in bringing Manning back. So is he just going to be a caretaker for the QB position for one year on a team that is hoping that it's young backups step up? But we pay him $15M to do it when you can let Oz try out for a year at a fraction of the cost?
I know I post this over and over, but I have yet to see any explanation that makes sense.
It's early of course, but FA period of much impact is winding down, and you're not filling all this teams holes in the draft.

Posted by Rhett Rothberg on 2015-03-12 16:44:05

State income tax is 4.63% in Colorado.

And you can deduct that from your federal taxable income, so it's a difference of less than 3%, so he loses about 0.38 million over the life of the contract compared to Colorado.

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-03-12 16:43:29

What's sad is it would probably work.

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-03-12 16:40:27

12 mil is something you can't live on. Better put your wife and kids on a budget.

BTW he just saved himself about 12-18% by signing in a state that does not have a state income tax. So that 12'mil is really like 13.2 if he just saves 10%.

I'd gladly take 12 mil for working

Posted by Lonestar47 on 2015-03-12 16:32:26

He was waiting for the right situation just like Joe Don.

Posted by ohiobronco on 2015-03-12 16:29:15

Well that kept Tatum Bell in shape.

Posted by Uncle Rico on 2015-03-12 16:25:32

To be fair he's been working at the mall selling phones for most of that time...

Posted by T. Jensen on 2015-03-12 16:24:14

KICKSTARTER! Crowd fund FA.

Posted by Lance Baxter on 2015-03-12 16:18:15

https://twitter.com/VicLombard...

Posted by Uncle Rico on 2015-03-12 16:16:53

How do we have no cash after selling out every home game and having 5 home playoff games the past 4 years?

Not doubting you, but what did we do with all the money?

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-03-12 16:13:48

I think it was Vic Lombardi that tweeted while the team has cap space they have NO CASH. So Ellis has appreanlty told Elway, there's no more money for contracts (despite cap space).

Posted by Uncle Rico on 2015-03-12 16:06:33

rahim moore..

Posted by Troy Fairclough on 2015-03-12 16:04:13

Broncos have 48 Million in cap space in 2016, and many fewer big name free agents. (Derek Wolfe and Danny T headline the list). Worry about that later.

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-03-12 16:03:43

Give it to Von Miller or DT.

Posted by Lance Baxter on 2015-03-12 16:00:17

I agree. What are we planning to do with our remaining 15 million in cap space? (More if we cut Colquitt or others)

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-03-12 15:54:15

2008?! That's 7 yrs. ago... and he's still looking for an NFL job?

Posted by Uncle Rico on 2015-03-12 15:52:44

Does that mean he hasn't done anything since 2008?

Posted by Jeremy on 2015-03-12 15:52:43

Colquitt's contract is obscene...

Posted by Laces Out on 2015-03-12 15:52:17

on the surface I think you are right. But for some reason I think Daniels is here for more reasons than just to play TE.

Posted by BRASO on 2015-03-12 15:52:16

Best of luck to Rahim Moore. He overcame a health battle and the embarrassment of the outcome of the final game in 2012 and became a gutsy solid player.

Posted by BlackKnigh on 2015-03-12 15:51:39

At this stage, prob. would have been better off paying Moore and not signing Owen Daniels. Someone like Scott Chandler (just cut by Bills) would have been fine over Daniels and given Green the opportunity to play more snaps.

Posted by Uncle Rico on 2015-03-12 15:50:32

Contract terms for Moore: Three years, $12M. Not what I would call overpaid.

Posted by Bob Morris on 2015-03-12 15:46:12

At this point with so many peeps leaving for larger contracts, I'm ok with Elway staying conservative in FA and potentially maximizing the compensatory picks in 2016.

Good on Moore, hope he gets grossly overpaid.

Posted by Lance Baxter on 2015-03-12 15:41:23

This guy can't be more than camp fodder, can he? Not sure if this is the quite sign we are expecting but likely portends something/ someone more to come later.

Posted by GMik - Broncologist on 2015-03-12 15:38:20

Echoing my earlier comment, I wish Rahim the best of health and some success. ;) Solid player.

Posted by underdog on 2015-03-12 15:27:17

And Denver just signed a kicker/punter, who apparently has not played football since 2008. https://twitter.com/Broncos/st....

Posted by RSH, Esq. on 2015-03-12 15:26:54

This just in from the Broncos. Possible sign that Britton Colquitt is heading out the door?

https://twitter.com/Broncos/st...

Posted by Bob Morris on 2015-03-12 15:25:56

Rahim Moore agrees with Texans

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