Enjoy the games everyone!
Apropos some earlier comments, perhaps McCoy’s playcalling got better towards the end because he was actually running the offense after McDaniels left. Fox and McCoy were relatively successful together in Carolina with a quarterback who was basically Fox’s Orton. I was never much of a Delhomme fan, but I thought Fox et al got as much out of him as possible. Of course, that was before he declined so drastically that Fox was, for all practical purposes, without a quarterback the last two years. I have a feeling he’s going to prosper with Tebow.
I think tonight was a good example of why Ted Bartlett and a lot of the smarter quantitative analysts on the web advocate a pass oriented offense. While most agree that Atlanta was a good team this year, you saw the difference between a team that grinded out games with good defense and a solid running game and a prolific passing offense and a team built to defend the pass. You saw that when facing a team that dictates how the game is played by passing to gain a lead, the running team is forced to pass - the passing team can continue to play to their strengths while the running team has to play, to quote a movie that most of you are familiar with, “out of their element”. Today, you saw what happened to an Atlanta team that was forced to pass. It looked very similar to what NE did to Pittsburgh earlier this year.
When a well-schemed pass oriented team that executes well goes out on the field, they can move the ball even against very good defenses (did GB’s scheme look a lot like NE’s to anyone else? Lots of screens, adjustments, timely runs, efficient passing). They run to setup the pass, and they take advantage of the fact that it’s easier to find athletes who can run to a spot and catch the ball than to find athletes who can react to those athletes and effectively cover those athletes running the whole range of route combinations.
Tonight showed why some of us were skeptical of Fox and the new FO’s longing to return to the days of the strong running game - hopefully Elway was watching.
Hypothetical Question:
If Rodgers wins a couple of Super Bowls before Green Bay forgives Favre, does he even make their Hall of Fame?
I know Rodgers has a long way to even a Super Bowl this year, presumably must beat Chicago and the Patriots, but it is a hypothetical.
94% of Packer fans are completely over Bret Favre. The other 6% don’t remember who was QB before Aaron Rodgers.
Kuhn kind of reminds me of Pat Boone. Or maybe Fallout Boy.
Well, what was looking like a close game has totally been taking over by the Packers offense. I thought they didn’t have a running game but Starks + Kuhn is a great pair. Kuhn is a lot like Hillis. Big, good hands, send them in to get you 2-3 yards every time.
The Packers are making the Falcons’ defense look like the Broncos. <img alt="hmmm" height="19" src="http://www.singernet.com/images/smileys/hmm.gif" style="border:0;" width="19">
That was insane. When we check that at Brian Burke’s place tomorrow, I bet we’ll see a 35% swing in win probability. Maybe more.
T.A.I.N.T…wow…lots of huge plays and GB is slowly strangling the Falcons.
Ah great, the referees are taking over again…
The Falcon’s kick off return for a TD was the worst thing for thing for the FALCON’S!!!! The Packers are destroying the Falcon’s D on long sustained drives.
Wow, Tramon Williams (undrafted!) is evolving into a shutdown CB.
Another great game so far.
Packer shooting themselves in the foot on special teams right now.
O&B, I personally believe the Ravens inadequacy today was less about Boldin and more about Joe Flacco (or as my 3 yr old called him, Fat Taco). I’ve never been sold on Taco as a clutch QB. The Ravens turnovers late in the game also didn’t help much.
Also, I wouldn’t just assume that it’s a given that the upcoming Denver offense will always be conservative. Andrew Mason, IIRC, commented that although Fox may prefer conservatism he’s not always given to that. He’ll play to the team’s strengths and with the talent with the WR pool and with the improved development that I expect from Tebow it would not shock me to see a different sort of FoxBall.
Early observations on the Packers-Falcons game…
1. Shameful fumble by the Packers on what was a huge pass play.
2. Falcons fans are out of playoff practice (5 years since the hosted, IIRC), waving huge flags and blocking the view of fans behind them.
I don’t the #2 spot is worth much, I certainly wouldn’t take any one year wonders like Fairley.
Piper, I would guess we would trade down for Dareus, Bowers or Quinn, if Fairley is gone after #1 pick. Moving back a couple of spots still likely gets us one of those guys plus xtra picks. So really, it’s not all bad whatever happens.
If we get Bowers or Quinn, I am not sure the effect on Doom (which was really your ?, so I didn’t address it - sorry). Dareus would not affect Doom at all (DT).
Space Cowboy wrote:“We wouldnât need to trade for Nnamdi, he is a free agent”
Ah, yes forgot that he can’t be franchise tagged. He is free of the Crypt Keeper!
I don’t think we can afford him, but I hope he doesn’t go to the Super Chokers.
If the Panthers take Fairley forcing the Broncos to take Bowers, would that mean Doom only sees the field on passing downs? Assuming a 4-3 of course. I think the Broncos need an upgrade at tackle much more than end.
Yeah that trade would get you fired as GM, Alex. <img alt="grin" height="19" src="http://www.singernet.com/images/smileys/grin.gif" style="border:0;" width="19">
I just hope if Broncos don’t have a chance at signing him that he doesn’t go to Chargers. Get him outta the division and I’ll be happy enough. -Man, what a bad, bad half for the Ravens. Wow.
Chibronx: One reason that I could never get behind Bill Callahan at Nebraska was because he changed everything that made the Cornhuskers the Cornhuskers. I realize that all things, even the Bob Devaney/Tom Osborne/Frank Solich era comes to an end. Callahan also ended the walk on program and completely ignored in-state recuriting.
I love the Iggles D and highly repect Jim Johnson as a coach. If the Broncos had gone with Dennison, I’d hoped they would hire McDermott to run the D, as assistant head coach if needed. I’m not sure how a JJ pupil would blend with JFox, though.
TJ: I don’t have a problem with a conservative game plan, as long as the wins come. I’d much prefer conservative to a strong arm punk heaving passes down the field, interceptions be dammed.
Alex: “How many screens can possibly be called?” If you haven’t read it yet, pop on over to onemanfootball.com and read Ted Bartlet’s article on the screen game.
“Considering the Broncos went 4-12, why not toss out whatever was here. Can’t really get much worse.” Throw the babies out with the bathwater? Each member of the staff should be judged based on how well the coach their position, and what alternatives exist. Is there a better QB coach the Broncos could hire than Ben (don’t judge by last name) McD? Can Skipper coach the running backs better than Studs? If there is a position coach that JFox prefers to someone currently on staff, and they can do as good or better job than the incumbent, then make the change. If the current coach is the best available, keep them.
We wouldn’t need to trade for Nnamdi, he is a free agent
That has to be one of the all-time dumbest penalties by that Steeler lineman. Look where the Ravens started this drive, though it looks like they’re not gonna convert anyway. So he won’t go down in infamy.
Alex, if we play less man-to-man b/c of the way Fox plays defense, we are better off gathering pressure players (Fairley or Bowers)
Nnamdi + Champ = Awesomeness.
No no no, Broncos need Nnamdi. I say trade our first round pick for him…
You know about the only thing Baltimore or Pitt needs to be truly unstoppable is Nnamdi.
The Boldin pickup hasn’t produced today.
Ah, now I get it…good point indeed.
This game is outstanding so far. I hate the Ravens (still mad about them stealing Shannon away and I hate Ray Lewis, though I respect his intensity).
Or what Drew said in much shorter fashion. <img alt="wink" height="19" src="http://www.singernet.com/images/smileys/wink.gif" style="border:0;" width="19">
Well this is still a great game, and as much as I wish the Broncos were a playoff team my stomach would be in knots right now if they were in this game.
13. Alex X Jan 15, 2011 8:05 PMDrewthorn wrote:“no OTA’s, no training camp, no normalcy at all”You lost me there, could you try that again⌗-I believe the point there was that there could be a prolonged lockout which could really make it difficult to install an entirely new scheme and bring in free agents early enough to properly get a system and a rhythm going. We all hope it is figured out much sooner than that but in that worst case scenario the lockout could last long enough to erase training camp, which would be disastrous for everyone, but especially a team with a lot of turnover.
For the Broncos, a lot of fans seem to want it both ways, sweeping change, through everyone out, but stability, too. We all want wins, of course. And I won’t disagree that there’s nothing wrong with bringing in a lot of solid new coaches, coordinators, as I think Fox is doing, after the last group had poor results. But having just a bit more patience wouldn’t be a terrible thing for Broncos fans, even though yes we’ve had a few poor seasons in a row now. We need a little continuity, at least combined with all the change, or we’ll have to wait even longer for positive change to happen.
As Doc says, not every hire is going to be agreeable to all of us (not that they should be consulting with fans about their hiring process), but I’ll give McCoy a shot. He’ll have some good people around him now, too.
Alex:
If there’s a lock out, there are no OTA’s. If the lock out lasts all summer (many people don’t think the players would buckle until they start losing game checks), then there is no training camp. When it gets resolved, its not like the NFL is going to give teams 3 months to make up lost time. They’re going to want revenue ASAP. Its not exactly the best environment to install a whole new system with new terminology. Pretty simple stuff, really. Retaining McCoy is the closest thing to a hedge the Broncos have.
Interesting piece I just read from Eric Mangini. While it provides a lot of “duh” stuff, the part about Brady at the line of scrimmage mixing hurry up and delayed counts so that he can gather information is the sort of thing that makes him great. It’s what we hope Tebow can eventually do:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports...
I should add that screen plays are great, as long as you don’t run them over and over and over…
Aye, Chibronx, I think the nickname hits the spot. I used to hate watching the Broncos games because I wanted him gone. There is no way a kid that young should have been the HC + GM. HC only, maybe..OC..sure I guess.
McD hated being in charge of personnel decisions (from what I’ve heard when Elvis’ contract was being negotiated), but apparently he made most of the decisions anyway (if we can believe the minute amount of information Xanders has said…I still don’t trust him either).
And considering the Broncos went 4-12, why not toss out whatever was here. Can’t really get much worse….
One point on screens - if you watch the Pats game this weekend, you’ll see the same screens that McD left and McCoy ran being brought out by New England and they’ll get a lot of yards (and points) with them over a season.
The real difference is, they run them a lot better. CB is right, too - I tend to recall the play calling getting better each game. McCoy needs to get that experience, and Tebow needed a simplistic game plan, so you’ll see a pretty basic offense, and at this point in the league (and with the Denver playbook as it was), that’s going to include a lot of screens. Worked for one game, came close on another. Granted, the OL started to play together better as well, but given that we’ll have McCoy anyway, seeing him handle the job a bit better each game was encouraging.
Screens don’t bother me - performing them poorly does, though.
It seems like between the yellow pants and the stadium name, the Steelers are the true Condiments. The Chiefs and Steelers play next year so I guess it can be the condiment bowl.
@Alex
I was immensely negative on a large number of things in terms of McCoy’s play calling during the last 4 games, however it should be noted that there are a few very important things that retaining him will do.
The most important thing is offensive system continuity. Because the terminology and concepts will all stay the same (and since my understanding of the system the Broncos uses is similar to Tebow’s college game, just expanded and uses pro style elements) it will not stunt his growth. Example of negative effects of constant OC changes is Alex Smith, every year it was something new and he never had a chance.
McCoy needs to grow a pair and be more aggressive in his play calling, but I am hoping that comes with more experience on his part, and as Tebow progresses the reigns will be taken off. The games against the Texans and the Chargers showed the danger of Tebow when he isn’t constrained by horribly conservative play calling. Remember, the Panthers use almost the exact same system as the Patriots, just a stronger emphasis on the run.
I am just hoping for the best.
Folks, Sean McDermott is available, amazingly. I’m not sure how his schemes differ from what Fox wants to run, but I love me some double A-gap blitz. Thoughts?
Alex,
Doug generally handles the twitter account. I think he’s outlined his feelings on McCoy in 4 or 5 versions of the Lard.
If your point is that McCoy is trash because he was conservative in his play calling, I think you simply disagree with those who would say the game plan was reduced because of Tebow’s lack of experience.
My personal belief is that Orton is a much as gone. Thus, keeping the same system and terminology in place to benefit Tebow is a benefit to him.
I think like it or not, Broncos fans will see more conservative game plans to be sure in the future on offense. In other words, the philosophy of John Fox is going to rub off on McCoy’s game plane. In short, I believe Fox wants to reduce turnovers, utilize the play-action pass, and win the game in the 4th quarter. I think this will translate into less 3-and-4 WR sets and a less aggressive passing game.
I see Fox very much like a Marty or a Cowher. His teams are going to be tough defensively and they are going to win between 8-11 games a year. They are going to try and gut you with the running game. And on 3rd down, they are going to need their QB to make some plays. When successful, this is what Kordell Stewart, Jake Delhomme, and Ben Roethlisberger have done.
The question is, can Tebow?
Alex—MisHanles, really? I take it you didn’t like the old coach. It’s hard to see what the silly nickname adds to things.
You know, one of the things that most people disliked about McDaniels, even though they rarely expressed it that way, was the degree to which he ripped everything up. The team has 13 players left from 2008. They went from a 4-3 to a 3-4, zone blocking to gap blocking, a WCO to the spread…. Doesn’t keeping the same offensive playbook, nomenclature, etc., seem like a good idea? Tebow performed well and improved by the game. The screens worked well. I really fear starting all over on offense and hearing the fans caterwaul again when the players look, you know, like they’ve taken a step back.
I am with ya Doc Bear, the last game between these two was epic…
When a QB gets a broken nose, you know it is real football.
Yes, sometimes it’s best to just accept stuff and move on. They’re making a lot of changes. If I agree with all of them I’ll be shocked.
I could try to argue against McCoy, but since they retained him I guess it is pointless now. It would just annoy me. I am trying to be optimistic…
I’ve realized that one reason that I usually like Steelers/Ravens is that the level of the game is often so technically excellent. Not quite so much the case today, but if I was really rooting for one of them, I’d be on the edge of my seat. That was a very tough 4th down.
Drewthorn wrote:“no OTAâs, no training camp, no normalcy at all”
You lost me there, could you try that again…
Alex, folks around here don’t tend to be all that shy (hence out tendencies to publish opinion and commentary as well as history, theory and news). Tell us why you feel that way and ask for different opinions. I’m pretty sure that you’ll find what you want to know, and a few other folks will probably chime in. We like that kind of thing <img alt="wink" height="19" src="http://www.singernet.com/images/smileys/wink.gif" style="border:0;" width="19">
Flacco is not exactly playoff clutch…
I figured as much Doc Bear…Whoever it is has tweeted it a lot.
I wish I could ID who on the staff wants McCoy so much so I can read the archives and see why they think that.
Touchdown Stillers (yes Stillers)...21-21! We got ourselves a game.
I imagine the Broncos might have opted to clean house in a normal year. But do you really think this fan base would suddenly be reasonable if the Broncos experienced the predictable challenges of changing offensive systems even in a normal year? Magnify that with no OTA’s, no training camp, no normalcy at al, and times it by a QB making his 4th ever NFL start surrounded by a bunch of 2nd and 3rd year players starting from scratch.
Oh, the horror…
In other words, the fan base has this franchise by the short-hairs, and they aren’t going to take a single risk they can avoid.
Anyone else wonder about the Raven’s conservative play calling inside of their own 20? Methinks bad bad bad
Is it possible for both the Ravens and Steelers to lose this one? ‘cause I really don’t like either of them. Did I mention that? But this is a good game, I’ll say that, as I’d hoped.
James Harrison is the baddest man that has ever walked the planet—including Vince Neil.
I didn’t think you could build a man that strong.
Alex, we’re a group of individuals here, not a collective hive mind. We each have our opinions, and whoever on staff wants to post on our Twitter has that right. Let’s be fair - we each have opinions. If you question the whole site for something that one of us (or more of us; I wasn’t involved in this one way or the other, and that isn’t really the point) says that you disagree with, that’s no problem. I just want to be clear about how the site works.
I will say this, though: if we had to all agree on everything to meet other folks’ standards, we couldn’t say much <img alt="grin" height="19" src="http://www.singernet.com/images/smileys/grin.gif" style="border:0;" width="19"> Actually, we take a lot of pride in each having and talking from and about our own viewpoints.
Win the following battles and you usually win the game: Time of possession, penalties, turnovers and field position.
I know the Ravens are winning the penalty, turnover and field position battle today. And they are up 21-7.
Broncos retain McCoy…tell me why this is a good thing? Whoever at IAOFm who keeps tweetign this makes me question the otherwise great analysis of this website.
The same guy who was basically invisible under MisHandles (like Xanders) then emerged with some truly awful play calling at times (how many screens can possibly called???)
If it is Pats (who should man-handle the Jets) versus Ravens (who are on fire right now), can I hope for multiple broken legs?
It’s an exciting game—if you like watching the refs for much of it. <img alt="hmmm" height="19" src="http://www.singernet.com/images/smileys/hmm.gif" style="border:0;" width="19">
But yeah the defenses are remarkable. Some day, some day…
As a Broncos’ fan, what I would give to have a defense like either one of these teams…
