Apple, tree--Fran Tarkenton just doesn't give a $hit. Do not mess with the Manning Family.
I’m glad we had this talk. Now, vaya con Dios, Brah.
Agree, disagree, just like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter so I can quit my day job.
Irsay was the one who signed Manning to a $90,000,000 contract. If Manning was not as good as Irsay implies, then why did he sign him to such a huge contract? If he wanted to win more Super Bowls, why did he not sign better talent to compliment Manning? I think Irsay is jealous of Mannings success in Denver and is scared that Denver will beat Indy this week and go to the Super Bowl. He had arguably the best QB the league has ever seen and and he let that QB go. As a Bronco fan, I hope Denver wins. As a football fan, I hope Manning crushes Indy and waves to Irsay after every TD pass.
lets hope that does not become locker room fodder for the colts..
Although I admit it was a powerful kick in the nuts to.. irsay..
Irsay just got verbally bitch slapped. Anxiously awaiting his rebuttal.
Great point about Ozzie Newsome, too. Any reasonable fan would conclude that Newsome has done a fantastic job for the Ravens over the years. Still, if you break down all his his drafts, you're going to find some Kyle Bollers stinking up the joint.
Many factors can impact what happens in a single game. Pittsburgh's two recent wins don't look as impressive when you review just how badly Seattle got jobbed in their game.
The Patriots would likely have one fewer championship if their defensive backs weren't allowed to mug Colt receivers with impunity throughout the 2003 AFC championship game. Walt Coleman's crew allowed Ty Law and company to manhandle Peyton's receivers so completely the NFL all but apologized to the Colts after the game. The fourth quarter of that game was as ridiculously officiated as the infamous Lakers/Kings game six in the 2002 Western Conference Finals.
Nice zoot suit, you schmuck.
That's all well and good, but the fact remains that it is HE who was responsible for building that dream team (defense? Special teams? WHAT A NOVEL IDEA.), so why is he even bringing up Brady or Pittsburgh or whatever? HE WAS RESPONSIBLE. HE HIRED THE MEN RESPONSIBLE.
Jimmy Irsay is a schmuck. A Charter Member of the Lucky Sperm Club, a guy who was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple.
That's Incredible! Give 'em hell, Tark.
While I would like to see Peyton throw for eight TDs against the Colts, how cool would it be if he just threw for 3 or 4, our running game had another 2 or 3 and the Defense had another 1 or 2? OK, OK, that's probably one touchdown too many. But still...
Preach on Frantic Fran.. preach on!
Imagine a scenario where the Manning Colts rotated through a bunch of no name receivers and backs but had a consistently better defense and special teams because that is where they focused their money. As a result there were some seasons where the Colts had to fight to make the playoffs (and a few seasons where they missed them) because Manning was working with new offensive "talent" and everybody was not in sync. However, the improved defense also meant that they went farther in the seasons where they reached the playoffs and they ended up winning 3 of the 4 Super Bowls they played in. Obviously there is no guarantee that going down that path to build the team would lead to that result. But if it did, would you be happier as a fan or more upset/disappointed? I can understand that years of mediocrity lowered expectations and that just making the playoffs was good enough at first. But when you have a QB who is top 5 of all time, I think the goal should be to win championships not just reach the playoffs and the team should be built towards that end, even if that increases the risk of not reaching the playoffs on a consistent basis.
Which kinda reinforces Irsay's point about needing consistent special teams.
If the Buffalo field goal kicker doesn't miss an easy game-winner in one of the Super Bowls, Polian's record looks a lot better.
Same thing for Manning's kicker one year (not in the Super Bowl, but I believe in the conference finals). Or if the Colts' kickoff receiving team hadn't given up an onside kick in the Super Bowl against New Orleans. (Or last year if...). Polian and Manning both could have 3 more Super Bowl wins if not for big mistakes on one play by defenders or kickers.
Here´s the thing. I think that´s going to be my only comment on the subject, because I came to love the NFL because of Peyton Manning´s Colts and I´m deeply hurt right now. I still love the Colts, past and present, and Irsay´s comments are a suckerpunch for Colts fans.
Before 2011, when Manning didn´t play, the 10 years prior to that, in terms of record, were the winningest in NFL history over a decade. No team had ever won as many games as Manning´s Colts in 10 years. So no, reasonable Colts fans do not have ire directed at the strategy used to build around Manning. Reasonable Colts fans understand that the only way to win a Super Bowl is to get there first, and that a consistent great aerial offense is the best bet to do that in modern football. I couldn´t give a flying crap about the greatness of the Steelers QB´s two rings, about Eli Manning´s two rings. Since they were drafted, Pittsburgh has missed the playoffs 3 times, as have the Giants. But we´re supposed to believe they have some special QB magic because of their two SBs wins. We´re supposed to ignore the fact that there have been years they haven´t lead their teams to the playoffs, that there are games that simply don´t exist in their postseason record because they never even went there in the first place.
Peyton led his teams to the playoffs even when they were deeply flawed, like in 2010. Everybody agrees, right, there have been deeply flawed teams that have won the SB recently? Like last year, or the Giants before that, or in 2005, or or many examples. Well, that doesn´t happen if you don´t get to the playoffs in the first place.
But then what, you ask, what about the postseason, when according to the pundits winning is most important?
Reasonable fans understand that luck plays a huge, huge role in the playoffs. There´s no magical recipe for winning in the playoffs. Not a great running game (Steelers 2008, 23rd in the league), not stopping the run (Ravens 2012, 20th in the league), not a great passing defense (Giants 2011, 29th in the league).
Reasonable Colts fans can remember at will and painfully the 2007 game against SD, where a hobbled Marvin Harrison fumbled the ball in the red zone, and both Chargers QBs (because Billy Volek finished the game!) lit them up because Freeney was hurt and in his absence there was no pass rush; the 2008 game against SD, where Scifres had the greatest game of any punter in NFL history, Sproles destroyed the defense, and Gijon Robinson forgot the snap count leading to a sack on a crucial 3rd and two with the Colts just needing to run out the clock; the 2009 SB, where the game turned because of the conservatism of headcoach Jim Caldwell just before the half, fucking Hank Baskett´s letting go of the ball during the Saints´ onside kick to open the second half, and the pass rush being absent during the second half because Freeney was hurt once again (and if you want to go there, see http://wp.advancednflstats.com.... 84%); the 2010 game where Peyton Manning gave his team the lead with 53 seconds remaining, and then the Jets had a 47 yards return and then Caldwell had one of the stupidest timeouts in history to give the Jets another chance at a FG.
Reasonable fans are informed fans, and the stats exist that back-up the randomness that occurs in the playoffs. Reasonable Colts fans are those who understand that building a great team is no easy task because of the salary cap, and because of the difficulty of drafting well, such that even great GMs like Ozzy Newsome don´t have a perfect record. For reasonable Colts fans, who thus are incredibly grateful for everything Manning and Polian did for the Colts franchise, look no further than Colts Authority, where insightful writers like Nate Dunlevy, Greg Cowan and Kyle Rodriguez are criticizing the Colts´current team-building strategy.
Reasonable fans of any stripe understand that you can´t have a team built with the kind of "postseason winning strategy" spouted off by ignorant media pundits if it won´t win in the regular season in the first place and get in the playoffs.
Jim Irsay spit on his own team´s incredible legacy and many reasonable Colts fans are furious and upset by it.
Nice job from the original West Coast Offense QB.
I actually think you just nailed it. It was a shot directed at Polian more than anyone else. Polian's philosophy of surrounding a great QB with very good skill position players resulted in a number of deep playoff runs in Buffalo, but no Super Bowl wins (9-8 overall), and then a couple deep playoff runs with one championship (9-11). It is definitely a good record but it also not super impressive given the quality of the two QB's. I can see why Irsay would want to try a different approach to try and win multiple Super Bowls now that he has lucked (pun intended) into another great QB.
Would it be humanly possible for the owner of the Colts to be unaware of the depth of the professional rivalry between Peyton Manning and Tom Brady?
I find it hard to believe anybody could be so opaque as to make that kind of comparison without knowing exactly what was going to happen.
Interpreting his comments the other way can only be construed as pretty uncharitable to Bill Polian. The notion that the Colts only recently discovered that building a balanced team is a good idea is a rather sarcastic assessment of Polian's job performance. Polian built some pretty balanced teams in Buffalo that ruled the conference for four years.
"We really just proved how now special teams and defense are winning games along with a great franchise quarterback."
Impressive that Jim Irsay could prove such a thing to an NFL lifer who helped guide teams to six Super Bowls.
If the Broncos had lost to the Jets in the 98 AFC championship and Elway retired after that game, I would have been disappointed that the team only won one Super Bowl during his career. I would also have been thrilled that the team won at least one Super Bowl, but I still would have felt like more was possible given what a great talent Elway was. In a way, I feel like two is a disappointment because the team should have been able to win even more than that with better coaching and roster management around Elway.
I think your justifiable dislike and distrust for Irsay is coloring your opinion of what he actually said in this instance. At this point, it seems like your proof that Irsay is throwing Manning under the bus is to read Irsay's quotes with the perspective that they were made with the intent of throwing Manning under the bus. But if you start from the opposite point of view and believe that Irsay was trying to make a point about the makeup of the surrounding cast around a franchise QB and not with Manning's talent or performance, the quotes just as easily support that conclusion. Despite his general dickishness, I think Irsay handled Manning's injury and release as well as possible and based on everything I had read before this week I never thought that Irsay was trying to pin the playoff losses on Manning's shoulders. (Irsay also seems like the kind of arrogant dick who would stick to his guns if he was actually taking a shot at Manning instead of trying to walk it back like he did today)
Submitted without comment.
Probably good that Irsay didn't have to wait 15 years to win a Super Bowl behind an all time great quarterback the way Broncos fans did with John Elway. I don't remember anyone being pissed or disappointed on that evening in San Diego. I remember John Elway talking about how sweet it was to get King Kong off his back. I think everybody who watched John's career understood how much hard work and good luck goes into winning a Super Bowl.
Only 20 organizations and fan bases know what it's like to win a Super Bowl. A few don't even know what it's like to play in a Super Bowl.
Marino, Moon, Kelly, Fouts, Tarkenton, Anderson and some other great quarterbacks never won a Super Bowl. The die hard fans of those teams don't look at them any differently, except maybe to feel badly for the guy because he didn't get a ring. Quite different for Jim Irsay. If his daddy didn't own the Colts, who knows if he would have even been a football fan?
Irsay was so close to saying what you think he said, but he blew it by mentioning individual vs. team stats, then immediately talking about "Star Wars" stats with Manning, Harrison, and Wayne. He could easily have said that the Colts should have supported Manning's offense with better defense and special teams, that it was a lesson learned for the future...but that's not what happened. There was a very real dig at the Manning-lead team, and I hope the Colts pay for it on Sunday.
"have a really well rounded team that when it gets into the playoffs and it's 20 degrees and snowing, that we're not just depending on the passing game."
And that's just another shot across the bow of the Broncos & Manning. Screw Irsay, and let's hope the team adds this to the pile of reasons to whip the Colts senseless...
I agree that Irsay has a history of jackassery but I have to disagree with your disagreement about the similarity of these comments to past ones :) The author of the USA Today article writes about how Irsay talked about building a balanced team. Who knows if he even made a similar quote about winning in the playoffs in the snow that wasn't included in the article. The only real difference is that he said Brady instead of New England while continuing to refer to the other teams by their city. And that isn't all too much IMO.
I don't blame Irsay for being pissed and disappointed that they won only one Super Bowl with the best QB in the game while other franchises with lesser QB's won multiple championships. But like most Colts reasonable Colts fans, I think Irsay's ire is directed at the strategy used to build around him and not with Manning's performance on the field.
Seriously. To ignore that aspect of his comments is being way more generous than he deserves.
I disagree that they're essentially the same comments. I do agree that artless comments are something Irsay contributes to the public forum with regularity.
When female NFL fans were upset about the NFL's restrictive new bag policy, Irsay took upon himself to make a condescending and borderline illiterate comment about the situation.
"How r those Clear Plastic Bags feeling out there during your Pre-Game Prep? Sorry,but Your safety comes 1st n they must b used 4 that reason"
And there seems to be compelling evidence that he's just a stupid and impetuous individual. This was what he decided to tweet after his team's first pre-season game this year.
"Many starters played briefly or were nursing little injuries,but it was a crap performance,my apologies/My commanders got n earful from me!"
Given his history and his parentage, I see little reason to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I really don't think Luck is going to be upset that Irsay has changed his mind about the best way to build around a franchise QB. I agree with this article which bradley linked to in the comments of today's lard.
Listen to Irsay's words to NFL Media's Albert Breer last week. "We really just proved how now special teams and defense are winning games along with a great franchise quarterback," Irsay said about the victory over Seattle. "That's a different type of team, but that's the vision I had going into this era. "Because it's about world championships. We got one in our era. The Steelers got two, Baltimore got two, New England got three. ... It really came down to inconsistent special teams and inconsistent defensive play, particularly against the run. The vision when I brought in (GM) Ryan Grigson and Chuck Pagano was to have a really well rounded team that when it gets into the playoffs and it's 20 degrees and snowing, that we're not just depending on the passing game." Irsay essentially said the same comments to Breer that he said to USA Today. Irsay just said them more artfully. He made similar comments to the Associated Press in the offseason. They weren't a big deal then, and they shouldn't be a big deal now.
Irsay's such a piece of shit. He comes back to say his comments were "misperceived", but in his schpiel he mentions Tom Brady and how his numbers were inconsistent yet he has 3 rings. If that's not a slight, I don't know what is. Especially when you're pointing to Payton's biggest rival and who's beaten Payton in some pretty big games. That stings. And now he's trying to backpedal? Go fuck yourself Jim.
He was fun to watch. I only caught the tail end of his career, but he was still pretty elusive. Fran Tarkenton and his head coach in Minnesota Bud Grant were a couple of NFL greats. Unfortunately, both guys wore unfair labels because they lost to tremendously talented opponents in their Super Bowl appearances together. They were beaten by two dynasties (Miami and Pittsburgh) and a Raider team that went 16-1. No shame in that.
Grant also lost to the last good Chiefs team back in 1969. ;~)
His quarterback was Joe Kapp. :~)
that was awesome! thanks for posting
Personally, if I inherited an NFL team with Peyton Manning for quarterback, then had the next great QB fall in my lap to boot, I'd spend my time complaining about the help. Because Life's. So. Hard.
OK. I am now officially a Fran Tarkenton fan.
My favorite reply to Irsay's boorish ignorance came from Peyton Manning. That "no comment" spoke volumes.
Tarkenton didn't hold anything back, that's for sure. Manning himself couldn't have said it any better. Shame on you, Irsay.
Irsay can go fuck himself
This was awesome. Irsay should kiss Manning's ass for saving their franchise, and yet here he is taking passive aggressive shots, because Manning didn't win more rings. What an entitled asshole.
Tarkenton did a pretty nice job here. He brought up Robert Irsay's treachery. He pointed out Junior has never done anything in the game of football except inherit an NFL team from an asshole. Best of all, he asks what Andrew Luck must make of those kind of comments.
That's how you handle a troll!
Good for you FT! Irsay salt and peppers his feet, every morning. He knows they are going into his pie hole, sooner or later, every day.